In article <a63qh3$o7a$1@knossos.btinternet.com>,

"Solstice" <mid688@aol.com> wrote:

> X-no-archive: yes

>

> "HB" <heathen_bastard@heathenbastard.com> wrote in message

> news:heathen_bastard-C4BC36.23085204032002@news.newsguy.com...

> >

> > <snip>

> >

> > I wanted to address this:

> >

> > > I know you know that that wasn't what the guy was getting at, and I know you

> > > know that your moral viewpoint comes predominantly from the society you live

> > > in.

> >

> > *Yours* may. Mine does *not*. Please do not conflate the two. In a

> > quite real sense, I do not _have_ morals. I have conditional ethics;

> > this allows me quite a bit of discernment and also allows for

> > context-based value judgments that don't cause the "guilt of hypocrisy".

>

> You'll have to excuse me - I'm not a student of sociology and therefore I am

> given to the use of simplistic terms. I'm afraid I equate "morals" and

> "ethics" although from a strictly technical point of view I accept that I

> should not do so.

>

> > A good example of this is speeding. When I speed, I know exactly why

> > I'm doing it at a given time, and I understand and accept that there are

> > consequences I'm risking by doing so. When the threat of those

> > consequences becomes more important than the impetus to speed, then I

> > slow down. I feel the same about any law, and most cultural mores in

> > the society I happen to live in.

>

> Understood. You have a flexible approach to the law and bend or break it

> when it suits you to do so. In such an approach you are perhaps more honest

> than many others. And when you ANTICIPATE undesirable consequences you

> remain within the bounds of law. But what is the root of that anticipation?

> What are the consequences that you are trying to avoid and why?

The same as anyone else, day-to-day: things that would be actively

uncomfortable. These include financial hardships, jail time, etc.

> You state that you have a mor... a system of "conditional ethics" which

> enable you to reason and make ethical decisions based on particular

> circumstance. My argument is that such a system must itself be based

> predominantly on the rules of the society in which you grew up.

Why "must" is be? How certain are you that the society you grew up with

has any but the most passing relation to the one I grew up in?

Certainly my early growth and thinking patterns were shaped by the

environment I was raised in, but that doesn’t mean I cannot choose to

change that, should I see a need to.

> Whether

> those rules are laid down in the name of a God or simply for the good of the

> group, they will ultimately result in a variety of conditioning. And it is

> within the bounds of that conditioning that you must start out - even if you

> eventually break it.

As I feel that I have (your mileage may vary). I don't feel connected at

all to the "morality of my elders".